Compititors for webMethods

[uday_insolexen]

Hi

Just for curiosity i would like to know who all are the compititors/similar products of webMethods Product/Software.

[ryan]

vitria, websphere, seebeyond, dot.net, mercator, tibco

[dgreen]

<2 cents>
While these companies are in webMethods' marketspace, I don't consider all of them competitors.

In head-to-head performance tests, webMethods shines. For that reason, the competition narrows down to TIBCO and IBM (WebSphrere). Those two companies bring different elements to a project -- TIBCO is the first to excel in the space and gets respect for that; IBM is, well, IBM. When IBM sells WebSphere, they sell not only the WebSphere software but other IBM products to their customers -- Professional Services, hardware and databases are some of the options available. Obviously, this makes sense if your company is already an IBM shop.

Speaking to BizTalk (.NET), it seems to be more "sellable" at the mid-level company size, where Microsoft products are already managing a large percentage of the server and desktop applications. BizTalk can be priced very low if the customer is willing to limit the feature set of the platform.

Speaking strictly in terms market capitalization, webMethods is the smallest player among the companies identified above, but consider than webMethods' only business is Business Integration. They do not sell hardware; they do not sell operating systems; they do not sell news.

webMethods has steadily increased their market share by providing good value. Put a price tag on the Business Integration players and you'll find that webMethods is very near the top of the class, if not the leader.

To put webMethods in a class that includes companies against whom webMethods typically triumphs, though, is doing a disservice to webMethods. It is akin to comparing Michael Jordan to a high-school basketball player because they both know how to shoot a ball.

webMethods competes with IBM, TIBCO and Microsoft. Ask around and you'll find that customers who select the webMethods Platform likely had these competitors on their short list. BEA could even be considered in that list, too, as they enter the Business Integration foray. Many companies use BEA's WebLogic server so BEA's integration platform is logical next step.

As for why a company chooses one over the other... that is generally an internal issue. Often, it is not related to product performance as much as product politics.
</2 cents>

[reamon]

I concur with Ryan's list, though I wouldn't have listed "dot.net" but rather BizTalk (and supporting software).

As Dan alluded to, the competition is actually broader than just the integration tool suites. wM probably loses more business to app servers rather than direct head-to-head competitions with TIBCO, SeeBeyond, etc.

The usual thing that I see is the point-to-point mindset coupled with the integration capabilities of WebLogic and WebSphere. The thinking is "why should I go through another layer of software, and spend a bunch of money, when I can do what I need within WLS/WAS?" App dev and integration dev are two sides of the same coin. Many times the app dev tools are picked for the integration functions.

Tool selection is always a trade-off among competing values. Product capabilities vs. skill sets vs. cost vs. timing, etc. Sometimes these trade-offs are viewed as "politics". It all boils down to this--the comfort level that the selecting team has that they can get their job done with the tool they select.

[Frank]

Dan:
I am confused by your statement...
"To put webMethods in a class that includes companies against whom webMethods typically triumphs, though, is doing a disservice to webMethods."

Why is this a diservice, I haven't seen any analyst, press, or even WEBM consider themselves to be in a different group. WEBM is always comparing themselves to this grouping.

And who in this space is selling news?

Thanks
Frank Lender

[dgreen]

Hi, Frank.

Consider me a fan of the product. I think webMethods' real competition is the Tier 1 vendors -- IBM, TIBCO and Microsoft.

Analysts and Press have excellent insight, but don't often see what is happening on the street. Therefore, they are reactionary to market movements and customer opinion. A great example is when TIBCO missed their numbers a few weeks back and, as a consequence, webMethods' numbers dropped, too. Market makers assume that if TIBCO falls, the sector must be down. Surely some consideration could be given to IBM and webMethods eroding marketshare.

If webMethods routinely beats certain companies during the Vendor Selection phase, at some point we need to all consider whether or not webMethods belongs in that class of companies.

I don't have much insight into webMethods' marketing but I imagine it like NCAA college football (sorry to use another sports example!):

Marshall University routinely wins the Div II championship in college football. At some point, you need to think that they are Div I material -- that they could compete with the Penn States and Nebraskas of the world. Instead, they are content to be the champions in the smaller, weaker division.

Marshall University has about 12,000 students compared to Penn State's 35,000+. BUt that doesn't mean that the two are not on the same ground with respect to football.

Enough of that analogy...

As for the news thing, TIBCO is owned by Reuters. Take away Reuters and (as an analyst told me yesterday), TIBCO and webMethods have comparable enterprise value.

Thanks, Frank,for challenging me. I am even more sure of myself now. :-)

[tim]

This is the most interesting discussion I have seen on this topic. We have recently been involved with two other groups at our company that were looking for a workflow solution and an edi solution. Each group had their own list of 'competitors' that they compared to wM in both specific areas. None of which I have seen mentioned here, but I understand why.

What has been most frustrating to us (we act as a central wM development team), is the failure for these groups to realize the benefit of the total integration platform. They want to slice out just the piece of wM that they can compare to these other products and not look at the big integration picture.

In my humble opinion, I would put webMethods in class by itself because I can't think of any other company offering a total integration solution. On the flip side, my experience has shown that anybody out there offering a single specific slice of the total integration solution is really a competitor.

[reamon]

Total integration solution is in the eye of the beholder but I'd offer these as comparable equivalents:

WebSphere MQ and related products
SeeBeyond
TIBCO

The product suites of SeeBeyond and TIBCO almost mirror wM product for product. I don't understand how they wouldn't be considered in the same class. We can nitpik about specific adapters, product categories (some might point to wM Manager as being unique, true. some might point out wM lack of a portal product) but these suites are essentially equivalent in my mind. It's really a matter of what warts you wanna live with.

Alternative points of view welcomed.

[mcarlson]

Quote from a recent Street.Com article regarding BEA's webLogic Integration product:

URL: http://www.thestreet.com/tech/ronnaabramson/10126537.html

"In a bet-the-farm move, BEA earlier this year moved beyond its core application server market, which is facing more competition as it matures, into application integration and development.

"It's going to be tough to penetrate already existing markets," said Erick Brethenoux, an analyst at Lazard Freres &amp; Co. <font color="0000ff">"The integration product is an issue. It's not mature enough to compete against webMethods (WEBM:Nasdaq) and these other guys."</font>

Brethenoux, who has a hold rating on BEA, said the company needs to tap its nearly $1.4 billion in cash and short-term investments to buy a company because its app server market is going down and developing products in-house has never been the company's strength. His firm hasn't done any banking with BEA.

<font color="0000ff">BEA founder, CEO and Chairman Alfred Chuang acknowledged integration is a new field for the company. </font>But he noted BEA is selling integration as part of a larger platform that includes its application server, portal and other products -- a strategy he said pure-play integration providers are mimicking. "