View Full Version : Experience for webMethods
How many years of experience is one normally expected to have for a job in enterprise application integration such as webMethods?
Also, is a basic yet broad experience better than specialized work experience? For example, I have worked on a few different projects for 2 years on many technologies spanning from PL/SQL on the database to XML and HTML on the browser.
Hi Kev,
What I feel is that a broad experience with multiple platforms is more than sufficient for any EAI coupled with understanding of business processes in an Enterprise.If you have coding experience with multiple RDBMS and Java ,little bit of XML knowledge and intermediate networking concepts you are ready to go.
Rgds,
Guru
I am going to say that the only experience required to use the webMethods Platform is technical project experience. The platform tools are so simple to use that new webMethods developers are on a (near) level playing field -- no matter with 20 years of experience or 0 years.
The webMethods Platform is designed to make integrating systems simple. And, while it is simpler to use the Integration Server tools, even the Enterprise Server tools are intuitive and powerful. Neither product requires deep knowledge of Java, XML, SQL, or similar "standard" languages.
Because webMethods-based projects are developed using "configuration tools", the best webMethods developers recognize the inherent repeatability of each and every integration. Those who can learn from past successes (and mistakes) are far better suited for webMethods development than those who cannot.
In webMethods development, the concept of "Configuration Code" needs to be embraced. If you are a purist, you will fail. What is a purist? The HTML developer who insists on using Notepad; The Java developer who insists on using VI. These are not bad traits, but they are not well suited for webMethods development where most routine tasks are readily at-hand. Time-to-Market has helped Macromedia's Dreamweaver Suite top its market as it has also helped JBuilder land on the desk of most Java developers. The webMethods Platform does the same for Integration Software.
So, what specific technical skills should a new webMethods developer have? The jury is still out -- the most successful webMethods developers come from very different backgrounds. But, they all have one thing in common: the willingness to explore and to challenge their own limits.
Good luck getting started and remember to use all of the resources at your disposal when you need help.
As with any technical work, the more experience the better. As Dan pointed out, a person just out of college can be successful with wM (indeed, with many of the integration tools on the market).
I must take a slightly different position regarding the 20 yrs vs. 0 years experience, however. While a new person can certainly learn the tools easily enough and get their webMethods "Driver's License," the more experienced person is better equipped to address a wider range of concepts, issues and technologies and is more likely to effectively deal with new and unfamiliar areas. As a corollary, consider a new Java programmer. While they can certainly perform well, the experienced programmer (not necessarily Java) will be operating at a different level.
As with any specific technical field, there is a path for growth which follows the traditional lines of programmer, programmer/analyst, systems analyst, etc. To move through this path with EAI* one needs to be exposed to as many technologies as is reasonable--your next project may require a fundamental understanding of CICS for example.
There is an article (http://eai.ebizq.net/leg/allen_1.html) at eBizQ.com that speaks to the role of the EAI architect. It's a couple years old but is still applicable. The main characteristic of an EAI jockey is that of a generalist--they have a broad understanding of a wide range of things, including technical- and business-oriented topics.
The article speaks to some of the expected technical skills sets. To that set I would add the ability to quickly assimilate and understand new APIs (to connect to apps), an understanding of the different interaction mechanisms (flat file, database tables, direct comm, etc.), and the ability to balance the ideal/theoretical with the practical.
Lastly, I again agree with Dan that deep understanding of things like Java, SQL, XML, HTML isn't necessary to be successful--but it sure can help!
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* EAI: In this context I'm using the term EAI in the broadest sense. There have been various terms used to segment the integration space including B2Bi, inter-EAI, and others. eAI Journal recently had an article that promoted the idea that "EAI" is back in vogue and refers to integration in general, be it behind the firewall or between companies. It no longer makes sense to segregate "internal" integration and "external" integration--conceptually they are the same.
My opinion:
To really do wM Enterprise correctly and understand the ramifications of what you are doing to the level that it creates successful, scalable, reusable integrations you should have strong backgrounds in:
Distributed system experience
Object Oriented experience
the ability to ignore your Object Oriented experience
Application Level experience
Architectural level experience
Systems Analysis (with emphasis on markov chain theory, queuing theory, monte carlo calculations, stochastic networks, Jackson Networks)
However, Dan is correct, if you know a little java (or any algol derived language), you should be just fine to start to play with it, but be ready to learn lessons!
!!!
-greg
webonsale
07-23-2002, 13:03
First off! I think this forum is a great forum to share ideas and get results.
Second thing is I was curious what kind of experience you guys had with webMethods. I do not want a book on it, but just a relative idea if this is a good market to be in.
How many years you guys been in it?
What exactly do you guys do when it comes to webMethods (development, architect, administration)?
Do you guys get bored with it?
And Oh, Do you guys worked for webMethods?
Most of the time I see is that webMethods is more on consultant side. Is that right?
Hi all,
I still feel that some knowledge of RDBMS,XML and java is really required for webmethods.e.g.while generating xml one should know what is well formed xml without which user might just generate incorrect xml.Webmethods is not so easy that anyone can just start using it.
Guru
raymoser
07-24-2002, 17:06
Here's my two-cents on webMethods B2B experience:
- When my first company bought webMethods B2B, they said we could hire burned-out VB programmers. This worked until java went haywire.
- Enough understanding of how the relationship between the java compiler, the JRE and the overall environment will suffice for java experience. I remember when I was a java greenhorn (not far from it now) I couldn't even read an exception message that was thrown for a Oracle error. I spent 2 days debugging it. I felt like an idiot, but that's how you learn. I can now hack out some descent java, but I don't consider myself a pro at it. I inherit code and manage it.
- For B2B (I know it's integration server), a firm understanding of XML is required. I think it would be hard for anyone to build a validation record structure or a schema without this knowledge. Also, how can you debug bad XML? I'm working on a situation right now where I used a dtd to create a validating record set. Our partner also is alledged to have used the same dtd. However, this is impossible. XML is case sensitive and they sent in xml with an entity name that contained mixed-case when it should have been upper. As usual, b2b caught the mistake. Also, if you have no knowledge of xml, then when improper xml is sent (i.e., "&" is not escaped, you get really weird errors that tell you nothing at all. I do a lot of initial messaging work outside of B2B using XML spy. I create my own SCHEMAS as well as dtds. Many people use dtds to create schemas and do not understand why they won't work.
- Developer Acumen: Some of the best coders make the worst B2B developers. I see them racing around and converting perfectly good flows to java. When the developer receives a requirement to generate a flow, then it should be evident that the flow matches the business requirement.
- That leads me to Business Acumen. Some of the best developers I have met fully understand the underlying business process. I have a degree in Social Science. I'm self-taught and have never sat in a computer class (except for a legal class I took.) However, when I'm working on an EDI 850 flow converting it to xCBL order, I can't help but remember one of my prior jobs as a purchasing manager, and how I had to manually drive the purchasing process (including reconciliation.) I was a business guy before I was a tech guy and this has helped me significantly.
- Database experience is crucial. SQL building skills are needed for just about any platform. The connection objects used (ODBC, JDBC and general driver skills are most helpful.
- Server configuration. I've not found very many people with both application and configuration skills. I see that this is due to roles and responsibilities in many environments. I find myself often helping our systems guys to configure so I'm lucky.
- Networking. I know enough about IP networking to understand why my application won't run. I can determine firewall issues, routing and port issues. This I believe is crucial.
- I attended b2b training at my cost. I have reaped benefits beyond anyone's imagination in terms of career enhancement, salary and satisfaction. I think that anytime you can get the relative training, you are ahead. I am attending sponsored enterprise training next month, so Rob, get ready for 1000 questions!
Just my 2 cents. Thanks.
"How many years you guys been in it?"
I've worked with ES for about 4-5 years. Started with it back in the Active Software days and the ActiveWorks product (they had just made the name change from ActiveWeb).
My IS experience started about 2 years ago. My first IS gig involved learning more about SQL and stored procs than I cared to know. ;-)
"What exactly do you guys do when it comes to webMethods (development, architect, administration)?"
As a consultant, I've done all of these things. Normally I get involved with designing a solution and then oft times get to do the implementation too. Kinda fun that way though I don't get to blame the designer for being short-sighted. :-)
"Do you guys get bored with it?"
No. Keeping up with the changes is the main challenge. Without getting into too much detail, staying abreast of the new stuff being rolled out and the things that get, um, "put on maintenance" can be a full-time job. I was recently at a user group meeting and not even 1 of the attendees was using Business Integrator (BI) yet.
"And Oh, Do you guys worked for webMethods?"
Nope. Never have.
"Most of the time I see is that webMethods is more on consultant side. Is that right?"
It depends. I know of companies that have outsourced the care and tending of the operational aspects (keeping brokers and adapters running, notifying appropriate people when things go south, etc.) and heavily use consultants to roll out new integrations. I've also worked with companies that are serious about having their own wM-capable staff and use consultants to accelerate the adoption of new components (e.g. rolling out TN). So I think there is a typical mix that is found in other tech areas.
Integration is a good area to be in. Of course, the more technologies and toolsets you know, the better off you'll be.
Hi am J2EE programmer i am planning to learn implementing webmethods.
could u help me out how to start learning WebMethods
and which and where to download Evaluation
software
ur help will be appreciated
Thank you
sameer
vinodravi
02-11-2003, 09:11
www.webmethods.com
You should consider learning it from service providers.
Best of luck!
vinodravi
02-11-2003, 09:13
I had a general question.
How long do you think webmethods is going to be relevant?
Whats going to happen to webMethods in the end?
At least a few more years. How much longer than that depends on how well 6.0 is received.
What would you replace it with? (I have my own opinions on what could/should be used instead, but want to get input from the gallery.)
fredh666
02-11-2003, 10:37
Q: How long will any software company be relevant?
A: As long a they add value to their product that the customers want.
webMethods goal has aways to be the large independent integration software company - think, Oracle. Even after RDBMSs became a commodity and MS and IBM had strong entries in the market, there was still room for a new large independent company.
Even when web service plumbing is built into everything (i.e. everything new) there will still be incredible need for integration. Given that the benefits gained from connecting software may be more important than the benefits gained from linking hardware, this will certainly continue for some time.
But, given the speed at which software evolves, any technological lead can be blundered away.
"Even when web service plumbing is built into everything
(i.e. everything new) there will still be incredible need
for integration."
Great point Fred. I would offer that because web service plumbing is being built into everything, there is an increased need for integration. Web services don't obviate the need for integration tools--they increase the need.
Kannan Jothi
04-29-2003, 04:40
which one can I rely on??
I got a doubt!!!.... It make sense that I consider myself as primary starter for WM. I just want to know how Web Methods are differ from Biztalk Server. Both are intergrated Server's for B2B Please let me know which way this two differs. If my query doesn't make sense than sorry for annoying you all
Rgds,
Kannan Jothi